tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post1649212493428708977..comments2023-10-04T09:20:58.422-05:00Comments on She's No Lady: Be Angry...and Sin NotLori Waggonerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-3471227591710441222012-09-01T16:04:18.238-05:002012-09-01T16:04:18.238-05:00Well said.Well said.Jo Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16723146298655686764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-16845255559958067502012-09-01T16:03:23.644-05:002012-09-01T16:03:23.644-05:00Lori, Well said. Lori, Well said. Jo Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16723146298655686764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-20779210064399339022012-08-23T08:56:02.451-05:002012-08-23T08:56:02.451-05:00Hi Lori,
Thanks for your very balanced perspective...Hi Lori,<br />Thanks for your very balanced perspective on these matters. I posted my own story on the group Do Right Hyles-Anderson site on FB. I'm not necessarily regretting it, however, what I have learned since has made me want to rewind to Monday as denial can be a peaceful place unfortunately. I wholeheartedly agree with your post and Robyn's responsive comments as well - that girl and I have been good friends for years :-) Thank you again for this post and I will share on FB :)Julie Caldwell Jungclausnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-89935030729940972912012-08-23T00:10:54.283-05:002012-08-23T00:10:54.283-05:00Thank you, Jenni Ziebarth. Thank you, Jenni Ziebarth. Lori Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-8882607453923437182012-08-22T22:50:03.773-05:002012-08-22T22:50:03.773-05:00This is really good Lori Shaffer.This is really good Lori Shaffer.Jenni Ziebarthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-57874326460587404802012-08-21T09:41:50.992-05:002012-08-21T09:41:50.992-05:00You're welcome, Jeff.You're welcome, Jeff.Lori Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-21376433391518971802012-08-21T09:29:31.897-05:002012-08-21T09:29:31.897-05:00I just saw this, Lori. Wow. There's nothing ...I just saw this, Lori. Wow. There's nothing quite like a insiders perspective. This was helpful to read and has set me to thinking about all sorts of things. Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03964285294133907863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-59492631752544645342012-08-10T13:30:00.208-05:002012-08-10T13:30:00.208-05:00He is a "professing" brother, and though...He is a "professing" brother, and though his fruit calls that into question, genuine repentance (in multiple areas, not just the sexual infidelity...) would re-establish him as such. Failure to repent will set him outside the camp, but I believe The Church holds the keys to the Kingdom, not me personally, so it isn't my place to declare him a non-brother. <br /><br />IF The Church fails to deal with him accordingly, then The Church at large can, in my opinion, declare that local body as unfaithful and "take away their keys" so to speak. But I don't wish to start a debate on ecclesiastical polity...only to assert that the authority to determine Schaap's standing as a brother does not belong to me as an individual.<br /><br />Thanks to all for your comments.Lori Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-71075374219823441272012-08-10T12:19:08.852-05:002012-08-10T12:19:08.852-05:00Jack Schapp a "brother?" This I question...Jack Schapp a "brother?" This I question. Appears to be a wolf and his "sheep's clothing" (arrogance) didn't fit very well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-51165159863727870252012-08-08T16:35:11.718-05:002012-08-08T16:35:11.718-05:00Thanks for writing this. I am a recovering fundame...Thanks for writing this. I am a recovering fundamentalist, but one who had a definite spiritual awakening at one of the Youth Conferences in Hammond in 1975, for which I am grateful.<br /><br />I now train people for ministry on college campuses, and we recently had a good discussion about understanding fundamentalists, even hyper-fundamentalists ... and viewing them as family members, not as objects of ridicule and scorn, even as we disagree (sometimes sharply). <br /><br />It's very easy to take on the viewpoint of the proud, praying Pharisee in these situations. Thanks for your call to Christlikeness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-11571171433798361562012-08-08T14:28:52.021-05:002012-08-08T14:28:52.021-05:00Thank you. God is working in my heart to expose al...Thank you. God is working in my heart to expose all of my corruption and to repent. I also feel compelled to apologize to people I have hurt and let it go. Thank you for your exhortation.Reforming Baptisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14846318789174330210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-8304647264892758072012-08-08T14:28:23.296-05:002012-08-08T14:28:23.296-05:00Thank you. God is working in my heart to expose al...Thank you. God is working in my heart to expose all of my corruption and to repent. I also feel compelled to apologize to people I have hurt and let it go. Thank you for your exhortation.Reforming Baptisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14846318789174330210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-17739914717230976832012-08-08T09:29:53.938-05:002012-08-08T09:29:53.938-05:00Thanks to all for reading and commenting.Thanks to all for reading and commenting.Lori Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-38077150286122223302012-08-07T15:59:54.692-05:002012-08-07T15:59:54.692-05:00Lori,
This is Susan Johnson, now Susan Fisher. I...Lori, <br />This is Susan Johnson, now Susan Fisher. I really appreciate your blog. I too remember things from those days that I wish I could forget. <br /><br />Thank you for your courage.<br /><br />SusanSusan Fishernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-30447812953476488712012-08-07T10:43:12.141-05:002012-08-07T10:43:12.141-05:00Lori, I am sorry this post had to be written. You...Lori, I am sorry this post had to be written. You did a great job. It was well written. Thank you.Theresa Culverhttp://www.theresaculver.infonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-31330518587642503612012-08-07T07:26:22.502-05:002012-08-07T07:26:22.502-05:00Robyn, you're a dear. While I'm sorry we...Robyn, you're a dear. While I'm sorry we ever had to share this experience, I thank God for the beauty He has formed in you and for your sweet encouragement to me throughout the last 3 years. I love seeing the way He is using you in some really, really difficult circumstances (of which I'm sure I don't know the half!!) <br /><br />Sending love to and prayers for you in your current situation.<br /><br />Of course you can share the link. Blessings to you and yours...Lori Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-47835129744843897412012-08-07T00:50:02.989-05:002012-08-07T00:50:02.989-05:00What you have written, would be a good start. Ret...What you have written, would be a good start. Rethinking doctrinal positions and putting policies in place to prevent such abuse and gross manipulation of power would be another step in the right direction. It would take a whole lot of courage and here's the BIG ONE......HUMILITY!! It will also take a whole lot of forgiveness for self and others ~ even if that forgiveness needs to be granted daily. I don't doubt for a minute that God can bring this about (and perhaps we are witnessing the beginning of that very thing). If not now, soon enough ~ it appears that God has perhaps had his fill and His time of longsuffering is coming to an end (and not just with IFB churches). <br /><br />It is my personal belief that most all of the "sins" of FBC leadership have stemmed from Pride and Greed. I believe it has trickled down to many who have ever been a part of FBC. And, I believe we would all do well to guard our hearts and our minds from these two devastating characteristics/sins. For some time, I have prayed for myself and others to be brought to our knees before God in humility. It is a scary thing to ask of God, but I have felt a very necessary one for healing. I still pray that, always including myself, and wonder if others have the courage to join me.<br /><br />I originally had decided to remain silent on the entire thing (usually my stance these days for such matters), and do not want to jump onto any bashing campaign (for the many who are still there that I love), nor do I want to diminish the abuse of many young ladies, nor the gross manipulation of power (for the many whom I love that have endured). I have felt, however, that I have been manipulated into silence far too long on the matters of the heart that have greatly affected me for thirty years. Nevertheless, I do not have the physical nor the emotional fortitude to speak out like I once did, nor do I have the time or desire to dialogue with others concerning these matters. I do, however, feel a need for a response to my many friends, DCS/Social Workers, educational colleagues and close acquaintances that are somewhat familiar with my former affiliation with FBC (a teen-ager growing up under the tutelage of Jack and David Hyles).<br /><br />Your writing is 100% in tune with my own views, feelings and opinions, so much so, that I am asking your permission to share your link and/or to copy and paste in its entirety for my fb/e-mail friends (with proper citing, of course). <br /><br />You are truly a kindred spirit and I thank God for our ability to communicate and stay in touch via the www. I continue to hold you and your family in prayer often, my friend!<br /><br />comment finally ended.... :-)<br /><br />RobynAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003717362132629887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-80940702770996975732012-08-07T00:48:47.538-05:002012-08-07T00:48:47.538-05:00One thing that I would add to your writing (though...One thing that I would add to your writing (though I’m absolutely certain you could write it much better), is the manipulation tactic that is being used to "silence". I have read so many posts meant to silence any dialogue, often stating how it is hurting the cause of Christ (and some undoubtedly are doing so). If the truth wasn't so incredibly sad and these statements such complete tactics of manipulation (though I'm confident most don't think or mean them as such), it would almost make me laugh (sarcastically). The truth is, more individuals and families have probably been hurt and turned away from true Christianity because of the hidden sexual abuse, the covering up of said abuse, and the abuse of power than the numbers of non-Christian people that will ever read or hear about recent news of Jack Schaap and FBC. The truth is, so many people and different personalities have to deal with this in their own way and their own time and no one else has the right to dictate how long and how to respond in their grief/healing process. As hard as it may be for some to hear it again, perhaps if they are further along in the process of healing or were never impacted by the abuse, they could lend a shoulder or perhaps just a prayer for those still hurting. The truth is, if the church would own their part in all of this, require justice and repentance, they just might help the many who are so obviously still in pain and in need of healing from events that stem from FBC abuse and or teachings, along with showing the world how Christians should respond. Like you, I’m not excusing the sinful behaviors of gossip and hatefulness, but I do understand where they are stemmed from and I do pray for healing and wisdom on the part of Christians and those who have left the Christian faith. I think you did a fantastic job of reminding us that holding onto the anger and hatred also hurts the one holding on so tightly, perhaps even more so.<br /><br />(comment still continued....)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003717362132629887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-33978139693279479432012-08-07T00:47:31.167-05:002012-08-07T00:47:31.167-05:00Lori,
Your writing follows almost exactly my pers...Lori,<br /><br />Your writing follows almost exactly my personal journal concerning all this, though much more eloquently written. <br /><br />Like you, I feel the need to suggest/teach, and yes, even require that they once and for all "do the right thing" with public repentance and humility for past and present sins and atrocities toward young women and the families that were devastated for a time, or altogether. <br /><br />It is encouraging to see that they are cooperating with law officials, but it is equally disturbing that they do not foresee any legal discipline coming, which to me, negates the abuse done to the young victim (and all the other young women whom you and I have known many very personally). <br /><br />Today, I called a dear friend who has been away and unaware of what is transpiring in Hammond, and told her about the many rantings and posts on fb, newspaper comments, etc. I told her how I understand the many comments and posts from all sides. I have at one time or another been in nearly every one of those phases during my lifetime since first being pulled out of the youth group at age 16. At that point, a number of things happened that rocked my world, and this past week it has all come back so vividly.<br /><br />I also have lived out the "shunning" from more than just Jack Hyles. The mindset and teaching, of course, permeates down through every aspect and relationship of people caught up in, or previously caught up in the teachings of FBC, especially those who have not yet found complete healing/forgiveness for self and others. This all continues in the name of "God". I have been tried, judged and sentenced all while not being allowed to defend myself (many falsities are accused of one who might dare try to defend or even to prevent their self-defense) and being silenced through the same type of FBC tactics. *One notation here ~ I have come to believe that if I pursue what is right in God’s eyes {not saying I will always get it right}, I need not defend myself. He will be my defense and will fight for me, in His timing. I’m not advocating that for everyone, but this has brought me peace and comfort. I have been outcast, yet, my God, who is fair and just and has every right to cast me out, has not made me an outcast! Rather He has chosen to bless me in unspeakable and immeasurable ways!! <br /><br />(comment continued....)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003717362132629887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-54051415914778792952012-08-07T00:14:00.099-05:002012-08-07T00:14:00.099-05:00I agree totally with the Townsends. I wish it wou...I agree totally with the Townsends. I wish it would be published in newspapers across the country. You are an excellent writer Lori, and (I believe) SO in tune with the Lord's heart on this. Thank you for throwing yourself into this article in spite of the emotions it brought to the surface. It certainly needed to be said ~ I just wish more people would have the opportunity to read it!Kitty Dozanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-53756618002743433672012-08-06T22:51:52.649-05:002012-08-06T22:51:52.649-05:00Thanks, cousin Debbie. Not all my stuff is this ...Thanks, cousin Debbie. Not all my stuff is this heavy, I promise! Thanks for stopping by.Lori Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-72181411362484901492012-08-06T22:50:39.067-05:002012-08-06T22:50:39.067-05:00Thanks, Mrs. Townsend. Your sweet comment made th...Thanks, Mrs. Townsend. Your sweet comment made the emotional investment and effort worth it. Hey...I had a good English teacher! :-)Lori Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640024291667610548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-44658477842800221432012-08-06T19:56:02.736-05:002012-08-06T19:56:02.736-05:00Great blog Cuz. I plan to read more of your writi...Great blog Cuz. I plan to read more of your writings.<br /><br />Debbie WaggonerDebbie Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14670963272016122354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5046427100966845879.post-37622453964346156982012-08-06T18:01:27.348-05:002012-08-06T18:01:27.348-05:00My husband and I read your blog together.. When we...My husband and I read your blog together.. When we finished he said,"Now that is the most intelligent,compassionate,spiritual,sensible and logical comments I have yet to read during this sad ordeal."<br />PS I am proud of you!Bob and Marcia Townsendnoreply@blogger.com